- MA files from this episode (66)
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images
Can someone get some better pics for the episode? Mine aren't very good. Johann 22:02, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
- You can request images at Memory Alpha:Requested pictures. --Alan del Beccio 22:27, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)
I know this probably isn't the best place to ask this, but does anyone know the name of the song that is played when Frankie firsts takes over? It's the same song that is played in Back to the Future during the dance.--docdude316 03:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
It was "Alamo" because Miles and Julian were asking if Vic would join them in thier holoprogram of The Alamo. Mainphramephreak 12:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
The song which takes over from Vic's rendition of "Alamo" is titled "Night Train." See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Train_(composition)
removed info
- During the heist, Doctor Bashir stares glumly at the cards he was dealt. He is holding a pair of eights and three kings (88KKK) - two slogans for some modern-day neonazi and racial superiority groups. Earlier in the episode, Sisko had been upset by the holosuite program's inaccurate portrayal of racial problems of mid-20th century Earth.
This was placed as background info in the article. A minor, coincidental note that has nothing to do with the episode's background; seems to be attempting to illustrate the producers' "hidden motives" where there are none. --From Andoria with Love 18:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know - too much of a co-incidence if you ask me... KKK and 88 - both right wing groups - I feel deliberate, myself - Divine
- And if he had three 6s, people would be saying that it was the devils number. You know, sometimes it is just a coincidence. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Except for the bit where "666" would have no possible connection - unlike "KKK" or "88". Oh, by the way - this is probably the worst DS9 episode ever made; it's downright ridiculous to think that even four hundred years onwards from current history, after Humans had met countless races and helped establish an entire Federation on the principles of mutual respect and diversity, that anyone would refer to another person as "black" (which, by the mid-24th Century, could also apply to any number of races - like Klingons, for example), or that the phrase "our people" would still have a more particular meaning than "Federation citizen", or possibly "Human" (as in "Terran"). Intraspecies racial identity was never mentioned in the other Treks - even ENT's Terra Prime xenophobes (presumably) didn't discriminate against mere skin colour, instead opting for the slightly more inclusive "humans only" stance, and I don't remember seeing anything particularly racially motivated during the Bell Riots of DS9's "Past Tense, Part I"... --Deemacgee 03:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- ...wah?! The worst episode? seriously? because of one line in one scene? I think you're completely overreacting. The concept of racial identity only makes sense in the context of prejudice about it, so that's why it was mentioned and Sisko referred to himself as black - in a sense, Sisko's particular human ancestry only makes him "black" when he's talking about history and his own ancestors, about a time and place when it meant you were different. It's not as if he's saying that racism exists in the 24 century, but what he is saying that it did exist in the past, and that it is wrong to ignore that fact by creating a sanitized fake version of history. This is presumably exactly how the writers felt; that it had to be pointed out that the real Las Vegas at that time was not somewhere where Sisko or Cassidy Yates would have been accepted. Although I understand why it was a controversial scene, ignoring that fact entirely would have in my opinion been a far, far worse decision, and I applaud them for being courageous enough to do the right thing. One of the most important themes in Star Trek is tolerance, but you don't get tolerance by simply ignoring prejudice or forgetting that it ever existed in the past. You have to confront it head on and denounce it, which is what they did. --86.135.218.31 04:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Except for the bit where "666" would have no possible connection - unlike "KKK" or "88". Oh, by the way - this is probably the worst DS9 episode ever made; it's downright ridiculous to think that even four hundred years onwards from current history, after Humans had met countless races and helped establish an entire Federation on the principles of mutual respect and diversity, that anyone would refer to another person as "black" (which, by the mid-24th Century, could also apply to any number of races - like Klingons, for example), or that the phrase "our people" would still have a more particular meaning than "Federation citizen", or possibly "Human" (as in "Terran"). Intraspecies racial identity was never mentioned in the other Treks - even ENT's Terra Prime xenophobes (presumably) didn't discriminate against mere skin colour, instead opting for the slightly more inclusive "humans only" stance, and I don't remember seeing anything particularly racially motivated during the Bell Riots of DS9's "Past Tense, Part I"... --Deemacgee 03:38, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
- And if he had three 6s, people would be saying that it was the devils number. You know, sometimes it is just a coincidence. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know - too much of a co-incidence if you ask me... KKK and 88 - both right wing groups - I feel deliberate, myself - Divine
- Probably not the worst episode ever but quite possibly the worst line ever. It's actually pretty self-defeating, having Sisko feel the need to defend his race suggests that such things do actually make a difference in the future, whereas if racial prejudice really was a thing of the past Sisko wouldn't consider himself different to other humans. The thing that tips the balance into ridicule is the fact that you've got a (fake) 60s casino that lets Klingons and Ferengi in and Sisko claims it's unrealistic that they let black people in. – Skteosk 23:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you Deemacgee and Skteosk. I couldn't have said it better. This line Sisko utters is an insult and disgrace to the whole vision and concept behind Star Trek - and in such a fundamental way. Having Sisko refer to himself as a black man and say "our people" in late 24th century or the fact the he even sees himself as a black man is completely internally inconsistent with everything seen and done on Star Trek thus far. I mean speaking of continuity. – Distantlycharmed 22:51, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
- It does seem a little hokey for Sisko to refer to "our people" like that, but remember that just a short time ago, he experienced life as a struggling black author in 1950s America, which most likely inspired him to research more about the history of the civil rights movement in the 20th century. CNash 01:53, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
trivia
- * This is probably the first Star Trek episode in which a crisis occurs due to a holodeck that operates precisely as programmed.
How about "Elementary, Dear Data"? IIRC, the crisis in that episode stems from the fact that the computer does what it is told: create an enemy capable of defeating Data (not Sherlock Holmes).
- That situation was because a user in the holodeck (Geordi) created the situation. In Vic's case, the writer of the holoprogram designed it that way, just as it says in the episode: a jack-in-the-box. In Geordi's and Data's case, IMO, the computer created Moriarty because Geordi asked for it. In Vic's case, Felix wrote in the problem without anyone's knowledge. The "Sherlock Holmes" holoprograms were designed to follow a set of paramaters, i.e. Holmes' cases as writen in the novels. Vic's program was designed to be a place to relax, not to actually acomplish anything. This was why Felix program in the jack-in-the-box, so no one would get bored. So, in defense of the first persone to coment on this (no one ever signed anything), this is most likely the first Star Trek holo-problem that occurs precisely as programmed, and not because someone alter the program. My two slips. Mainphramephreak 13:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Only mention of race in 24th century
I think this is the only episode wherein a human character living in the 24th century overtly mentions or observes that their race/ethnicity is different from other humans. Though race and racism is dealt with often in allegory or in time-travel episodes. Also interesting is that Captain Sisko describes himself as "Black," suggesting "African American" might cease to be accurate in the 24th century.
- The episode "Far Beyond the Stars" specifically deals with this issue though I suppose not from the POV of a Starfleet officer. Cirroc Lofton even mentions the word nigger (which is the only reference in the whole of Star Trek (thank goodness))--Morder 05:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- Sisko mentioning "our people" seems to somewhat odd though, after several hundred years of equality. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.201.144.5.
I just watched this episode and IMO "our people" could very well mean humans, I feel the dialog is objective and well written. --Captain Chris 08:53, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
DS9 Theme in episode
The background information states that the DS9 theme played in a jazz style at the end of the episode as Frankie is escorted from the casino. I just checked this, and it sounds absolutely NOTHING like the DS9 theme, even accounting for the difference in styles. Is there any supporting evidence for this? And can some other users check this for me, in case I am missing something?--Tiberius 13:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, I just checked. It's got a bit of the DS9 theme, but it's very subtle and very easy to miss. Sneaky composers...--Tiberius 13:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
The remixed theme is more apparent during the walk along just prior to Quark and Morn talking about Vic's bar - Me, 01:09 7 March 2007
Leslie Hoffman
Leslie can be seen when Sisko threw the money. She is the right woman in the flower dress who is crawling and collecting the Money. ;o) – Tom 22:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Removed text
I removed the following text from the background note on the Hammond organ:
It's an unusual choice for a jazz band in 1962.
It's not at all unusual; the use of Hammond organs in popular music started in jazz and was picked up by rock musicians in the 60s and 70s. It was still used in jazz during that period as well. -- Renegade54 21:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I removed the following nitpick which explains itself away.
- It is never explained why Chief O'Brien couldn't freeze the program at the beginning of the episode, considering the fact the holosuite was not actually malfunctioning. It is possible that Felix, the programmer of the holosuite scenario, hard-coded this function to prevent users from dismissing the jack-in-the-box portion of the program as a system malfunction. In any event, the inability serves as a plot device. The ability to freeze the program would make a heist very simple to pull off.--31dot 23:08, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Also removed the following incite tagged note as irrelevant, unless the music was chosen for that reason:
- Much of the music in this episode also appears in various Robert Zemeckis films including "Back To The Future" and "Who Framed Roger Rabbit".--31dot 13:13, May 26, 2011 (UTC)
Background
- Nog's clothing alternates between maintenance coveralls and a security guard uniform several times during this episode.
I'm not sure what this particular statement is trying to say. I just finished watching the episode and in the context of the episode he's required to change clothing as that's his cover. --Morder 05:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Casino
There are many elements of this story and the characters and scenes in it which seem to pay homage to the 1995 Martin Scorsese film Casino. Namely the shots of the count room and its guard and Zemo is probably a reference to Remo, the mob boss from that movie. Can this go in background info? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.40.54.46.
- As noted (with a citation) in background info, this episode was actually intended as a homage to Ocean's Eleven. – Cleanse 04:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Is it not possible to pay homage to more than one moive in one eppisode? Someone who has seen casion please help me here.(124.40.54.46 04:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC))
- It isn't a matter of having the movie, it is a matter of putting in what we can cite. One (Ocean's Eleven) is citable from a production source, the other (Casino) would constitute original research, as it is not cited. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:09, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
- So in order to mention in background that elements from Scorsese's 1995 movie were in this episode we need production staff to confirm it? Even though it is quite obvious that filming style, camera move and even narration format were taken straight from Casino? I mean come on. That was so obvious. – Distantlycharmed 22:57, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
- It isn't a matter of having the movie, it is a matter of putting in what we can cite. One (Ocean's Eleven) is citable from a production source, the other (Casino) would constitute original research, as it is not cited. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:09, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
- Without confirmation, it is only a coincidence for all we know, "obvious" or not.--31dot 23:16, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
- I think attorneys for intellectual property law matters would disagree, but I guess for our purposes as a wikia I get what you saying :) – Distantlycharmed 23:23, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
"Alamo" song
Despite the claim near the top of this page that the "Alamo" song Vic is singing when the program changes is also found in Back to the Future, I can't find any evidence of this song outside of DS9 (at least via a Google search for the lyrics Vic sings). Was it written for this episode? The script merely says, "Vic steps onto the stage and launches into a romantic song about the Alamo." Most of Vic's songs are mentioned by name in the episode scripts. Did the show's producers perhaps plan to use a different song here, and fail to get the rights?
Secondly, should there be an article for this song? If its title is "Alamo" (as indicated by Vic), should such a song article be at Alamo (song), or at some other title? The German MA has an article for the song here, but we don't seem to. —Josiah Rowe 06:10, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
Found the song that plays after the club is taken over.
I do believe that i found the song and that it is the song "night train" also featured in back to the future I and II.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obr3wZCAkhQ
I am 99% certain it is the same, if not the same recording.
Sunrise, Sunset
I'm watching "Badda-Bing" on Netflix. At about 25:04 the music sounds like a mildly jazzy version of "Sunrise, Sunset" from Fiddler on the Roof. Has anyone else noticed this? --Cdbva (talk) 02:48, May 25, 2013 (UTC)