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FA status Edit
Nomination (28 Sept - 09 Nov 2006, Failed) Edit
I've been working on this page since I registered, although the majority of it was created by other members and edited and fine-tuned over time by myself as well as them. The article is now quite large in size and contains a vast amount of information about Cardassians, extracting just about every important detail about them. All information is referenced properly, there are no spelling errors I can find, there are no links leading to non-existant pages, and the information provided is thorough and structured very nicely. If there are any suggestions on how to touch up this page to make it better before and feature-article worthy,, let me know, and I'll do my best to clean up the page some more to your satisfaction. I definatly think that this page should be recognized as a featured article due to the vast amount of work put into it and for all the reasons listed above. Thot Prad 18:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: In many of the recent edits, including todays, I have found a number of errors that needed correcting. While I have made these corrections, I have not had a chance to read through the rest of the article, and there may be more of them. This article needs to get reviewed by others in detail. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support. Extremely well written, good elabouration on OOC subjects. — THOR =/\= 00:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- comment - perhaps this should be submitted for peer review first, no? --Alan del Beccio 03:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - I will switch it to be under peer review as opposed to a featured article nomination given that there are not enough supports yet for it to be considered a Featured Article - Thot Prad, 17:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Renomination (24 Dec 2006 - 06 Jan 2007, Failed) Edit
Nominate: I personally put a lot of work into the article, cleaning it up and adding information and citations, prior to putting the page up in the peer review section. This page was in the peer review section for a couple of months, though no one commented on how to improve it there, slowly people have tweaked it to near perfection (there will always be room for improvement on any article). The article is very in-depth and covers just about everything you need or will want to know about the Cardassian people. I think this article is more than worthy of being a featured article. - Thot Prad 02:54, 23 December, 2006 (UTC)
- I'd like to see a better choice of images here for this article to become featured. Currently, there are 5 portrait photos, and nothing else. While it makes sense to show Cardassians at different ages, I'm not sure a bland "listing" of female/male/young/old is the best way to go. I'd suggest to remove at least the Enabran Tain image (shows nothing of importance), move the remaining ones to appropriate sections (for example Mila to "Society and culture", which talks about aging), and then find other, relevant images. What about a Cardassian child? An image showing a cardassian court, general architecture, government buildings, technology? -- Cid Highwind 13:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
- I have added a ton of images and placed them throughout the article, including Cardassian orphans, Mila in the part which discusses age, the Cardassian Chief Archon, public trials, etc. If there are anymore changes necessary, let me know. - Thot Prad 15:24, 24 December, 2006 (UTC)
- Support - I like the recent picture changes to this article. It goes quite indepth, features a great amount of information and is very informative. - Enzo Aquarius 13:59, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
- Support - Finally had time to read through this, recent changes have moved this from good to great. Nice work. -Humuhumunukunukuāpuaʻa 22:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Renomination (31 May - 16 July 2007, Success) Edit
This article has been worked on considerably since its last nomination. The last time it was nominated it failed, solely because it was lacking a couple votes, (NOT because there were objections to the nomination). I have submitted the article for peer review, and have received no advice on how to improve it. Therefore, I feel the improvements already made to this article after its previous nomination should be more than enough for it to receive the sufficient votes for a featured article. Support - Thot Prad 19:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Oppose, for now. I don't see the peer review link up anymore otherwise I'd post there. I have some issues with the article that should be resolved first before I can support. It's mostly complete but the Philosophy section has a lot of content that would seem to fit better under Society and Culture, or perhaps Philosophy should be a sub-section of that? I see very little there that is revealing about Philosophy which I would consider to include Religion, the meaning of life and so on (see the Ferengi or Vulcan pages). Certainly bits about architecture and the paragraph following belong in Society. Also, I think there are some things missing here that can be gleaned from other episodes such as hostility between men and women often being a prelude to mating (Destiny). And given the importance of the military and intelligence services it definitely needs a section or sub-section for each even if it's brief and links off to the main articles a la the Klingon page. Logan 5 19:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
- There, I have taken the time to add a considerable amount of information regarding the military, intelligence agency, education, religion, etc. and have formatted the page layout to be a bit better. I believe it will be to your satisfaction Logan. *UPDATE* Should you not change your "object" to "support" now that I have made the corrections and additions? I don't know why you haven't already... - Thot Prad 19:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, I've been busy! Given the changes I'm comfortable withdrawing my objection and putting in a mild support. The support is mild bc I still feel like there has to be additional info out there in other episodes, esp. Voyager given Seska's pregnancy (pointing to compatibility with other species), Mocet's experiments (in combo with treatment of Bajorans its further illustration of their racist tendencies). But it's much improved. Logan 5 20:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I don't know if this is still open for discussion (shouldn't this have been resolved weeks ago?) but with the new additions, I heartily support this article's nomination. ~Anya Prynn | Talk 01:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- As it stands, the article meets the criteria of a featured article. Rest assured, I will likely go through the Voyager episodes with Seska to obtain additional information which I will eventually add to the page. I am also going to be re-watching (more or less) all of Deep Space Nine, so any additional information I come across I will add. I appreciate your input and support Logan 5. - Thot Prad 00:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
- Mild Support from me as well (because it may be lacking, but it is very well-written). For featured status, it needs one (five total) more support vote. After that we wait seven days for any objections. If there are no objections, it will (should) be featured then.--Tim Thomason 00:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
- This article has been expanded a lot since I was last here, Thot Prad really did a lot of good work on it. Support. ~Starchild ~ Talk 5 July 2007
- I have added a large amount of information to this page, including the ability to breed with other species in the physiology section, as well as a bulk of information in the society and culture and philosophy sections which I think is quite important. I hope these additions will be sufficient to boost those "mild supports" to "supports". Not that it makes much of a difference in the votes, but I'd like my fellow Memory Alpha members to be pleased with the page and see my commitment to this site. Let me know if there is anything else you think should be added, though I think I've squeezed out almost all the important information on this species. - Thot Prad 07:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
- It's been over a week since the last needed support vote, why has this not become a featured article yet? - Thot Prad 00:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, at least temporarily. I just took the time to read through and copyedit the article, and made quite a few changes to the page (albeit relatively minor ones). In my mind, I shouldn't have been able to find nearly the number of fixes that I did in an article that's ready for featured status. Someone else should at least take a second copyedit pass on it first. -- Renegade54 01:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- I understand where you're coming from Renegade54. I just reviewed the edits you made (the vast majority were formatting of links and templates and some grammar changes/minor rewording) and I appreciate you taking the time to do this for the whole page. I have just gone over the entire page myself (again), while also looking at the edits you made, and I have been unable to find anything requiring significant changes like what you just did. The page is broken up nicely into sections and sub sections, spelling and grammar has been checked numerously, links and references are all present, and now there are no multiple links to the same page (I just took the time to go through the links and make sure there weren't any unnecessary links to a page which has already been linked too). Any other changes made will be because of one's preference, not because they're necessary. Even Featured Articles get edited from time to time. Considering that the necessary time has already elapsed since the required votes for it to reach featured status, and I just copy-edited the page a second time, I think you that you should be ready to change your opposing vote. If you have any other concerns or comments, let me know. I've put a lot of time and effort into this page, and I'd hate to see all the support votes go to waste. I believe everything you've mentioned has been resolved at this point. - Thot Prad 05:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- That's fine, I just wanted one more set of eyes scanning the page to see if I missed anything. If not, then my objections have been met and I support the nomination. -- Renegade54 14:34, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Physiology: "Resistance" Statement is in ErrorEdit
To me the following paragraph seems just plain wrong: "Compared to other species, the Cardassians have a very strong resistance to the effects of alcohol, depressants and anesthetics. One Cardassian was able to down more than two bottles of kanar without being affected, and was even injected with 30 ccs of triptacederine without consequence, despite the fact that a dose of that magnitude would be enough to put an Algorian mammoth to sleep."
First and most importantly, the point of showing Garak's unsuccessful attempts to anesthetize himself in DS9: "The Wire" with Kanar and then an anesthetic was not that Cardassian central nervous systems (CNS) are more resistant to alcohol and anesthesia--the point was to show what extreme pain he was experiencing. The more pain one is in, the more pain reliever one can take before passing out. Cancer patients, for example, may be placed on opiates to be taken on a schedule, be given shorter-acting opiates if they start to feel pain, plus be given a quick-acting opiate (in lollipop form, believe it or not) for sharp episodes of breakthrough pain. Someone not in pain would conk out with a half-dose of the scheduled opiate--and there's no reason to believe that if he were not in excrutiating pain, Garak (and other Cardassians) wouldn't, too. Cancer patients whose pain keeps them conscious despite heavy narcotics could still die from respiratory failure if they take more than what the palliative medicine doctor prescribes; that's what Dr. Bashir was worried about.
Second, the reference to an Algorian mammoth was hyperbole, not "fact." One would have to be an extreme literalist to think the intention of Dr. Bashir's statement was that 30 cc's was the standard veterinarian dose; anyone who has ever sat in a literature class should know the point of the comparison was that Garak took a "large" dose, not that Cardassians can literally withstand anesthesia doses that an Algorian mammoth can't.
I would suggest that the paragraph be deleted altogether from this article. If it were to be corrected, it would clearly refer to Garak's situation in DS9: "The Wire" and would no longer express anything unique about Cardassians as opposed to humans and other humanoids. MultiplePOV 20:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Top quote Edit
"I don't like Cardassians - they're mean and arrogant!" - Quark (DS9: "Behind the Lines")
Doesn't this say more about Quark's feelings at a particular moment in a particular situation than it is a summation of Cardassians? After all, Quark is also madly in love with a Cardassian and friendly with others on occasion. A separate section citing other's views of Cardassians would be a more appropriate place to use this. MultiplePOV 04:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
- I agree and removed the quote accordingly. It's not a particularly memorable quote IMO anyway. I think a small section on viewpoints of Cardassians would be a good addition. As as start, we could mention the following viewpoints:
- Bajorans, as a subject species, in particular Kira
- Miles O'Brien, as a human who was involved in the Federation-Cardassian War - "The Wounded", "Tribunal", "Empok Nor" et al.
- Quark, as an entrepreneur in Cardassian space - the Beginning of the DW arc, as well as flashbacks in "Necessary Evil" and "Things Past"
- The Dominion, as their "partners" - Weyoun, the Female Founder (shouldn't be too long considering the article already details D/Carassian relations in History)
- How's that sound? – Cleanse 04:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Are Cardassians Synapsids? Edit
Cardassians are described in the article as 'reptilian', but are they in fact a Synapsid species? Synapsids are also known as 'mammal-like reptiles' (extinct on Earth), and this seems to describe Cardassian physiology quite well. They are certainly different from Sauropsid species (Gorn, Xindi-Reptillians, or for that matter Lizards and Crocodilians). Now, IIRC, there is nothing in canon that directly states that they are reptiles of any kind (althought I think several people described them as 'cold-blooded' several times). They also have hair on their heads, which would be unusual for a reptillian species.– 22.214.171.124 03:00, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
- I think it would be folly to overly describe them and try to place them in Earth evolution levels that have not been stated in canon. Reptiles are described living off Earth. Past that, pushing our luck. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I believe the blue coloration on female Cardassians should be regarded as cosmetic. There are examples of female Cardassians without it; Asha doesn't have it, neither does Jil Orra. While Jil is a young child, and perhaps the blue coloration doesn't appear until they grow up, Asha is a young teen, and there's not even a hint of it there. Mika's baby and Tora Ziyal are hybrids, but Tora is an adult and doesn't have a hint of the coloration either; while the rest of her Cardassians features are pretty strong. Should we say something about this in the article? MaGnUs 06:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
- It's a background note at most - the only thing that can be said in the article is along the lines of "Female cardassians have been shown to have a blue spot in their forehead spoon"... — Morder (talk) 06:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
- How about mentioning the fact that some of them don't have it?MaGnUs 08:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
- It's an oversight, like the original Trill and Bajoran makeup in particular. I'd say leave it out. -O'BrienTheCoolGuy
- Yes, it is not significant. Perhaps they are different races of Cardassians.--31dot 09:18, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- I think you could draw an analogy to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindi_%28decoration%29. Since DS9 makes so many obvious references to religion throughout the work, it seems logical that this was another reference to Earth traditions. Of course, the Cardassians seem to be thoroughly atheistic, so it'd be just as well termed a cultural aspect akin to human lip painting. 126.96.36.199 03:10, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
There were a large number of new additions in the last 24 hours that I've not come across before, most of which were rewordings of prior material (a lot of which appears speculative) with none of the citations changed. One bit of new information is as follows:
- The Cardassian Union is a type II Culture. Cardassians are Patrilineal, whether they are also patrilocal is unknown.
Where is this information from? The article claims that it is cited from "Emissary", but I don't recall any conversation about "type II", patrilineal", and patrilocal" stuff coming up... -- sulfur 13:04, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
- Doesn't sound familar to me. Don't even know what those terms mean.--31dot 13:28, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
- I just noticed this remark myself and thought it sounded rather odd. Indeed, if you think about it they would not be considered a Type II civilization, since nobody in Star Trek (except perhaps the Borg) has advanced to the point where they can harness every last bit of energy that comes out of a solar system. Should this line be removed? (The patrilineal part could probably stay since Cardassian last names do seem to be passed down from the father's side, but patrilocal isn't in my dictionary...anybody know what it means? :-)) -Mdettweiler 22:22, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
- I've done a bit of thinking about this - the only references I remember are the Dyson Sphere in TNG (Type II), and the location of the Borg transwarp hub, which looks like it uses either a star, artificial black hole, some kind of contained supernova, or some other such piece of Treknobabble. I'm guessing (if true) that would either be Type II or something sort of between II and III. Jswitte (talk) 19:09, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
Past tense? Edit
Why are we referring to Cardassians in the past tense? They were not completely annihilated during the Dominion War. There were survivors. As far as canon goes, they are not an extinct species. Let's not jump to conclusions. 188.8.131.52 02:03, September 3, 2010 (UTC)spacebunny
- It's a (slightly odd) Memory Alpha convention. Everything is written as if from the perspective of someone living long after the "present" seen in Star Trek TV and films. The explanation and rationale are here, if you're interested. —Josiah Rowe 02:39, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't we mention that Cardassians seem to have a longer lifespan than most races, despite it being almost thirty years, dukat didn't look any different to how he did during the ocurpation, just a thought. --General MGD 109 19:47, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
- We shouldn't unless there is some hard statistic or statement to hang our hat on- Dukat's appearance could be for any number of reasons.--31dot 20:03, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Should there be something mentioning the similarity between Cardassians and Bajorans with their names? Both seem to use their family name as prominent unless interacting with someone close. For example, we didn't know Garak's first name was Elim until well into ds9's second season. If the similarity isn't necessary to be noted, it should be noted for the Cardassians alone in this article. --Jaguartalon 07:54, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think that's true with Bajorans, at least any more than it is with any other species/culture. With a few Cardassians we don't know if the name used for them is their first or last name (such as Mila or Ari) and we, as well as Bashir, didn't know Garak was his last name until we were told that by Enabran Tain. So I'm not sure we should generalize based on a few examples.--31dot 09:45, November 27, 2011 (UTC)
losses in Dominion War Edit
The end of the article states 1 billion Cardassians died during the last few hours of the Dominion War. The cited figure in "What You Leave Behind", on MA, and in other works refer to 800 million. This is the first time I've read of "1 billion". Is there another canon or background source for this, like an episode script or an interview? Thanks! 184.108.40.206 17:59, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
Cardassian Wars Edit
I would like to point out that, while Cardassians did manage to stalemate Federation, it is implied that Federation's involvement in Cardassian Wars was half-hearted (most people in Federation didn't even really notice there was a war) while Cardassians were being driven to bankrupcy. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk).
- I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking here. 31dot 21:24, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
Cardassian Bones Edit
In Way of the Warrior Bashir mentions that the Klingons broke seven of Garak's transverse ribs and fractured his clavicle. I think that something about their skeletal structure could be added.
Speaking of ribs, a transverse rib is not a medical term, but an architectural term related to roof supports in vaulted roofs. For example;  This could give us a bit of an idea of what Cardassian ribcages were like.