Talk:James T. Kirk/archive

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From Memory Alpha:Nominations for featured articles

James T. Kirk

I'm nominating the large article on James T. Kirk for feature status. It's extensive, well cited, and well illustrated. It's broken down in chronological order and consistent in form and format throughout. It's is definitely deserving of feature status. --Bfgreen 11:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose, if you look at the article history, it is in a state of flux at the moment (and that was before the nomination). In addition, I am not happy with the pictures, particularly the first one in the sidebar. All we can see is a silhouette of some person. It needs to be replaced with one of the great shots of Kirk from Star Trek VI, or something. The information on the movies is very lacking, particularly some of the relationships he had then, with very little on Carol Marcus, and nothing on Martia (who only has one sentence on her, and it is under McCoy), and very little about the events of Star Trek V and VI. I am sure if I read in more detail, I can find more problems. This article is long, but it's not ready, and articles don't just get featured because they are long. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 16:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, the image in the sidebar of Kirk's silhouette was a nifty little addition, IMO. It was an image of his famous entrance in Star Trek II. The image kinda gave it that "Here he comes... you know who this is!" quality... if that makes sense. But, yeah... whatever. :P (by the way, that new image of Kirk from STVI? Yeah... that's gotta go, lol! Do you have a better image of him from the film? If not, I might be able to find one...) --From Andoria with Love 19:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• My opinion of the sidebar is that it should be an image of the character that actually shows the character. As for a better image than what I put up, that was done after spending about 5 minutes trying to find something from Star Trek VI. If you can find a better one, go ahead and upload over mine. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 20:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support - Admittedly, I worked a lot on this article. I think it covers the all the major bases effectively, and I'm pleased to see it nominated. I do wish there was more to say about Carol Marcus' relationship with Kirk, but from canon sources, there just isn't a whole lot of hard data to use. Other subjects not covered in lenghty detail have links to their appropriate articles. --Aurelius Kirk 20:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Looks good. Seems to cover almost everything (although it could use expansion in some areas). Just because an article is still being worked on now and then doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as a featured article, IMO. --From Andoria with Love 18:46, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Well, the article ir pretty good. Revenge 16:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Conditional Support - I did some sp. edits, but otherwise the article seems really good. I would like to see this picture thing figured out before we make it featured though. I know it's traditional to have the "last time we saw them" pic at the top, but why not just have a '60s promotional image of him at the top? It's the first thing people think of about Captain Kirk anyway. (Maybe the one with the PADD, but I'd like to see that replaced.) We do do it sometimes, ie: Uhura.

Also: if we can replace any images of "peoples heads" with images of them with Captain Kirk, that'd improve the article a bit. IE: Janice Rand and Rayna is a persons head, where as the Edith Keeler image is a great example of him actually being involved with said person. And the "2266 and 2267" years have just peoples heads, can't we involve Kirk in'm ala 2268? - AJ Halliwell 16:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Support - The article is impressingly comprehensive. The objections are insubstantial and/or subjective. -Skon 22:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• • I'm sorry Skon, but you are not yet eligeable to vote here. Per Memory Alpha:Featured article nomination policy#Voting for nominations, you need to have been both registered for at least two weeks (you've only been making edits for 4 days), and have made at least 20 significant contributions to Memory Alpha. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 00:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Ok! Would be nice if there were an automated notification for that. That would save a lot of work.-Skon 00:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• I am changing to support in recognition of all that is here. I still think the areas I outlined above need work, but I am willing to see that done after FA status, as they are relatively minor. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 00:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• Support. As Skon said above, the article is incredibly comprehensive. It is well-organized, well-referenced and has a plethora of links to complementary articles. I'd like to see the few red links (gang, rehabilitation colony and Jon Povill resolved to a page or removed, but that's just a personal preference. -Dave -TheBluesMan 01:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• Featured: 8 Yays, 0 Nays --Alan del Beccio 04:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Youngest Captain

I changed the outdated information on Kirk being the youngest captain in the fleet's history to this date, since TNG's "Conspiracy" makes undoubtedly clear that Tryla Scott has aquired that title at some time in the 24th century. – Ambassador 00:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

When was it first established (in canon) that Kirk was the youngest captain in streerfleet history? Is it confirmed that he first became captain at the age of 31? --MShivers 22:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

The 17 Violations

I think I figured out what Kirk's 17 temporal violations were based on stuff seen in movies/episodes and wondered if those were worth listing anywhere, or if they're too superfluous? – Ostron 20:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I would not consider them too "superfluous", but it might be worth putting them here for others to look at first. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 20:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

A lot would depend on what you consider "violations"...are we talking about time travel incidents in general, or ones where the past was interfered with in some way?

The only ones I can come up with on the top of my head that include actual temporal tampering are: the Edith Keeler incident, the Capt Christopher incident, the Gary Seven incident, and the "Whalesong" incident. If you are referring to general time travel, then the Psi 2000 incident would also apply.

It is possible that each "incident" may involve multiple violations, in the same manner, for instance, that if you were to hold a gun on a group of 5 people, you would be charged with 5 counts of "assault with a deadly weapon". That would make it easier to come up with 17 violations out of those few incidents.Capt Christopher Donovan 00:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Since the definition on here of the Temporal Prime Directive simply stated interference as a breach and not time travel itself, I didn't count just incidents of time travel as violations. However, in order to reach 17 I had to assume that Kirk would have been held responsible for actions of his subordinates. The ones I came up with follow (these are not in order):

• Abducted/transported John Christopher
• Enterprise photographed by 1960s earth military
• Security guard abducted/transported
• Record tapes from military base stolen (this done by members of crew; violation under "captain's responsible")
• Allowed Gary Seven to alter history
• Was arrested and threatened travelers in Sarpedion's past
• McCoy traveled back in time and prevented death of Edith Keeler (violation under "captain's responsible")
• Allowed Spock to travel back in time and guide his younger self (violation under "captain's responsible").
• Sells glasses from the future to collector in 1986.
• Formula for transparent aluminum given to engineer in 1986 (violation under "captain's responsible")
• Tells Jillian Taylor about future origins
• Klingon equipment confiscated by US military in 1986 (violation under "captain's responsible")
• Made Chekov "disappeared" from Mercy hospital, leaving records of his stay.
• Reveals Klingon Bird of Prey to a 1986 whaling crew.
• Brings 2 Humpback whales from 1986 to 23rd century.
• Brings Jillian Taylor from 1986 to 23rd century.
• Exits the Nexus in the 24th century and disrupts plans of Soren.

That's 17. Ostron 16:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Another actor that spoke like Kirk?

I thought I found an article that mentioned a guest star, who copied William Shatner's speech patterns as Kirk when doing his character. I can't find the article again for the life of me. I don't suppose anyone has got any idea which guest star I'm talking about? I think it might have been a captain or something, in either TNG, DS9 or VOY. Also, the actor may have played other characters - I think the character where he copies Kirk's speech patterns only appears in one episode, but I'm not sure. Sorry it's so vague! Can anyone help? Thanks! 90.200.153.37 08:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if it's the one you're thinking about, but J.G. Hertzler based his performance as Laas on Shatner's performance as Kirk, according to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion. Have a look at the background info on "Chimera" - there's a quote from Hertzler on the topic. – Cleanse 03:22, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that was it. Thanks! 90.208.215.200 04:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

No problem. ;-) – Cleanse 06:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Winona Kirk

Under "Apocrypha", this article says, "The novel Collision Course by William Shatner gives James Kirk's father's name as "Joseph Samuel Kirk". The name of Kirk's mother is said to be "Winona Kirk"." It's not clear (to me, at least) whether the name "Winona Kirk" comes from Collision Course or some other source. Where was it first used? —Josiah Rowe 21:00, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Kirk's birth

Are we sure Kirk was not born on the Kelvin in the prime timeline? Winona was very close to giving birth. Am I to understand that had the Narada not arrived, Kirk would somehow have been born in Iowa? 64.12.116.202 17:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Nothing ever said Kirk was born in Iowa. In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Kirk said he was "from Iowa" (and he only works in outer space), but didn't specify if he meant birth or simply where he grew up. It's different for many people, including myself.--Tim Thomason 18:00, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, File:Historical archive, Starfleet (production resource).jpg – from ENT: "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II" – makes it clear that James T. Kirk (prime) was born in Iowa on 2233 March 22. Since it is also now canon that his mother was on board the USS Kelvin just before giving birth, one would presume that she originally got home just before she delivered. This implies that the Alternate reality Kirk was born a little early due to the stress of Nero's attack (so probably mid-March rather than March 22). —MJBurrage^(T•C) 20:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

There is no evidence from the TOS or the first 6 movies that Captain Kirk's Father served in the Star Fleet. The reference to the Alternate Reality movie needs to be removed to an isolated section about the alternate reality movie. Magnumserpentine 21:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

See my comment in the following section. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 02:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

=> modifications in 2233 are wrongs (?) Prime Kirk is born in Iowa ; and alternate kirk is born in the medical shuttlecraft Kevin. I agree with: Winona delivered due to the stress !!!

=> The farm, where he lives, is his uncle's farm ? sources Star Trek Generations. In Star Trek who speaks in car's nokia ? is his uncle ? C-IMZADI-4 22:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I forgot about the bio screen earlier. The uncle's farm in Generations was in Idaho not Iowa, so it has no bearing on the film.--Tim Thomason 02:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Alternate Reality Related material.

I feel that all Alternate Reality material needs to be excised and moved to a separate section. There is no evidence in the TOS or Movies 1-6 that gives what Kirk Sr. was doing. Some fiction stories have him in Star Fleet. But there is no evidence for it. Just my two cents worth Magnumserpentine 21:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect, prime Spock told alternate Kirk of his father who lived. That was not alternate reality related material. --Alan 21:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

The alternate reality does not begin until Nero shows up, so George Kirk being first officer of the USS Kelvin with his pregnant wife aboard is canon in both realities. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 02:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Pre Enterprise Service History

I know its mostly accepted that Kirk served on the Republic first and then the Farragut, but this really makes little sense. I think its the other way around and here's the clear facts as to why:

1) There is no data on where Kirk served after the Farragut attack. This is a swatch of history left wide open. 2) Kirk says he served with Finney on the Republic some years after the Academy, not during. 3) Kirks admonishment of Finney move him up on the Ship Captain's list. Obviously this was sometime near his promotion to captain otherwise why would he even be on the list?

--Mark 2000 23:37, 10 May 2009 (UTC)