Talk:Kelvin type

New Timeline?

Should the "new timeline" banner really be at the top of this article since the Kelvin was commissioned prior to Nero's incursion? -- TrekFan ^Talk 14:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Since most of the information here describes something that occurred before the creation of the new timeline, I would say, no, it shouldn't be here. :) --From Andoria with Love 04:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I thought so. I'm going to go ahead and delete it. If anyone has any reason why it should be here, please comment. -- TrekFan ^Talk 22:37, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Unnecessary

Is this article even necessary? Since the USS Kelvin is the only known Kelvin-class ship, the two articles will be highly redundant. I see no purpose to this class page, since class pages help to link various ships and their histories to each other in the same class. As there are no other Kelvin-class vessels, I don't see the point. Feel free to correct me otherwise. --Kahwless 15:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. Having this article here allows for expansion should we see any more ships of the class in the future. Also, if we removed this one, we would have to remove all the other "ship-type" articles on MA. No, having this article here lets us add to it in the future, should we need to. If not, then it's here for the sake of completeness, IMO. -- TrekFan ^Talk 15:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Your point is valid. With Paramount anticipating a 2011 release of the next film, I'm sure we can anticipate a better glimpse into early Starfleet ship history, possibly more Kelvin-class vessels. And with the onslaught of novels that I'm sure will come about as a result of the movie, I do see apocryphal vessels appearing as well. --Kahwless 21:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well also the "Kelvin type" was a featured vessel in the film. The corridors, escape pods, bridge design, basic ship design, similarity to Saladin and Ptolemy class design, over 800 crew, phaser/photon complement, shuttlebay, turbolift, weird shielding arrangement, and probably more are just a few details that would be better off here than on the USS Kelvin page (which is supposed to focus on the History and crew of that particular ship). We've made good articles with quite a bit less, and this is a potentially feature-worthy (when we get DVD-quality images) ship-class. No need to worry about the sequel or apocrypha for all that.--Tim Thomason 08:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Size?

I'm a little hesitant to accept the size given for the Kelvin class. 450 - 650 meters? Constitution class ships were only 300 meters long. If the class truly is 655 meters in length, this would make the Kelven-class one of the largest ships built by Starfleet that we know of, roughly the size of the Galaxy-class! Was Starfleet making ships of this size in that time??? Leonard McCoy stated that the Excelsior was a big ship in the movies, and that class measures less than 500 meters. Semiscaepera 08:28, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Length and size are two different things. At its official size of 457 meters, Kelvin's internal volume would be nearly equivalent to the original Constitution class. More importantly, even at 655 meters in length, it would be barely a third of the Galaxy class' volume. If McCoy had said That's the biggest ship I've ever seen that would be one thing, but he never even says that much. The ship's official size makes as much sense as anything else in canon. Newtype alpha 05:20, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Blue bolts

Okay, so there are bound to be more people questioning the "blue bolts as photon torpedoes" factoid. Here is the reasoning on this, based on the visuals and the script.[1] In the dialogue all they say is "Fire all phasers" at the beginning of the battle when they are only firing with the red beams. So the blue bolts are at least not phasers presumably. Later on they start firing these blue bolts also after Captain Robau is killed on the Narada, the script says they are firing photons also at this point:

26MA EXT. U.S.S. KELVIN - CONTINUOUS 26MA

The Kelvin BANKS AGAIN -- its PHOTONS SLAMMING INTO THE ONCOMING

NARADA TORPEDOES, JUST AVOIDING IMPACT!

...which to me makes it a pretty clear case that the blue bolts slamming into narada torpedoes are the photon torps called for in the script. All they say at that point in the film dialogue is that this rapid firing of all weapons is part of the "Bravo-six maneuver" and there are no displays or other dialogue to say anything more about these blue bolts. However the Enterprise torps look almost exactly the same but a bit brighter blue bolts at the end of the film. And "photon" is synonymous in the script with "photon tordedo" if you read the whole thing through. So there you have it. --Pseudohuman 20:13, November 16, 2011 (UTC)

Background information or apocrypha

So we seem to have a disagreement with user Defiant on what is apocrypha and what is background information. As far as I can tell these notes are licenced non-fiction sources that would be listed as background information sources and not apocryphal:

• The USS Kelvin dossier on the official website for the movie states that the ship was used primarily as a survey vessel. [2]
• The Gizmotron models 1/2500 scale model kit names this ship type as the Federation deep space scout. [3]
• According to Intel Corporation's Template:Brokenlink (Starfleet Shipyard at Memory Beta, the wiki for licensed Star Trek works), the Kelvin's impulse engines were powered by four deuterium fusion reactors and the inside of the warp nacelle contained two rows of massive semi-circular warp coils.

Could someone help us here? --Pseudohuman 07:10, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

The first note would probably be Background because it was on the official movie website, which suggests the information was associated with the production of the movie. The other two notes would be Apocrypha because Intel writing information about the ship and the model company doing so are likely both those respective companies making up information themselves(at least as the notes are written now, with no evidence the info came from someone associated with the production).--31dot 10:16, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Looking at how MA considers sources, websites are invalid resources unless the info is also available somewhere else, so I thought the bg info from a website might be useful if presented together with where it says the same thing, if you know what I mean. Anyways, I'm happy with the info being integrated into the bg info instead. --Defiant 16:41, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think it should also be taken into consideration that the website info directly clashes, at least in my understanding of what a survey vessel is, with a statement made by someone we know played a large part in the movie's production. --Defiant 16:51, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really care where it is, bgnote or in the bgsegment of the article, it's fine how it is now. but official websites are valid reference sources. It doesn't matter if the info is presented in in-universe style "the ship is X" or "a model designer said in an interview that the ship is X"-style. both are just as valid and equal statements as far as MA is concerned. --Pseudohuman 19:25, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

AR

This will mostly likely need to be moved, but it's the alternate reality, just like it's the mirror universe. We used the term alternate reality to describe only one alternate timeline or quantum reality, not several. - Archduk3 13:38, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

The difference is, whereas there is only 1 mirror universe, there's multiple alternate realities. That's a fact and cannot be changed upon a user's whims. --Defiant 16:29, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

There's one we call "the alternate reality" here on MA (for simplicity). The rest are alternate timelines and quantum realities (as AD3 noted above). -- sulfur 16:38, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. That's a much better way of wording it, rather than something akin to "we're gonna change the nature of reality by wishing it was this way"! --Defiant 16:43, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps we could also spell it out in such a clear-cut way for newbies, somewhere in the policies and guidelines. MA is starting to use a lot of words in a different way to how they'd normally be used, such as the AR. I think these should be noted. --Defiant 16:48, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Engines

"The low warp nacelle had an unusual extra exhaust at its aft end, which lit up when the nacelle was energized."

I think we should strike out "unusual" as most/all alternate universe starfleet ships seemed to have nacelle design in a similar way, thus it wasn't unusual for the alternate universe. --Jaguartalon 06:00, April 12, 2012 (UTC)