Starship classes
I removed the following:
- Because differentials for the Excelsior and Springfield exist, it is safe to assume that the other vessels are Constitution class until further notice.
As I said when I reverted it, it's not safe to "assume" anything, especially since the differentials hardly prove anything. --From Andoria with Love 17:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say that it hardly proves anything. The difference for two other classes is noteworthy, but if we must insist on not declaring the other ships as Constitution-class, we shouldn't overcompensate by playing down that possibility either. Wangry 17:21, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
- The graphics do little to back up the table provided in this article. If these are being offered as the basis for the ship names and class, it offers very little evidence. One can tell there are at least two different types of starship graphics on the page 2 picture, a small one for Eagle and a large one for Excelsior. I can't even read the name of the middle ship, although it's silhouette is closer to Excelsior's. Unless better screen captures are available, this table starts to look conjectural at best. --Sorehl 23:28, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- Just the "chart silhouettes" column. --Alan 23:32, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- Following up on my earlier comment, I pulled up Star Trek VI on DVD and these graphics are basically unreadable even with an upconverter and a 52" screen. On chart 1, you can see that Starbase 24 is the origin and Rura Penthe is the destination. On chart 2, Excelsior and Eagle are blurry but readable. The middle one looks like Potempkin, but I wouldn't swear to it. Chart 3 isn't helpful. If someone is relying on a better graphic from something published, let's see it or this entry should drop the whole starship list. There's no way you can be pulling names and registry numbers from these graphics, much less have a debate about what class the ships are. Without a readable graphic, the table entries for anything but the three ships on chart 2 are conjectural. I'll wait to do any actual table editing to see if someone can map the other ships against their positions on the graphics.--Sorehl 23:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- I believe it is the Star Trek Concordance which provides the information pulled from the chart. --Alan 23:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
- So, with real uncertainty, I wonder how this should be ruled w.r.t. canon? The Concordance isn't a canon-approved source, although it's certainly permissible as a reference. Is it permissible to post a copy of the chart from the Concordance? If it isn't, is it appropriate to include information not obtainable from the movie without referencing the source or labelling it as Apocrypha (or something similar)? In the Constitution-class article, for example, ships without an "onscreen" pedigree are listed as Uncertain. I recommend either the Concordance be cited as the source of the table information or the portion not derived from the movie be broken out somehow - this would let readers judge how canonical the references are. Or am I wrong? --Sorehl 00:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
- First of all, what exactly are you arguing the removal of? What I stated above "the "chart silhouettes" column" is really the most dubious of all that info. The Concordance (and likely the Encyclopedia) provide information from the Chart, but regardless, the Chart will always be the source provided it is visible (even if not necessarily legible), then that is also usable here. --Alan 00:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Fair question. The information on Operation Retrieve does not appear in the Encyclopedia. I'm not doubting the truthfulness of those who have access to this Concordance resource, but to be honest, until your comment it's a reference I was unfamiliar with. Does the book contain authentic (rather than fan-created or extrapolated) artwork? I guess I'd like to see it for myself to confirm the ship names and registry numbers are valid. I'll report back if I find anything lacking. In the meantime, shouldn't the table reference the Concordance, just as people cite the Encyclopedia or other source? --Sorehl 00:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
"Klingon home system"
The article says that OR "involved a direct incursion into the Klingon home system". If this is so, then West's map would be a canonical representation of Qo'noS' neighborhood. Is there a closer view available? What can be derived from the map? It seems that Rura Penthe is in the same star system as Qo'noS. -- StAkAr Karnak 21:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- There's no reference at all to the Klingon Homeworld system on the map, all three pages indicate the destination of the Operation as Rura Penthe, with nothing else indicating otherwise. C'est la vie. --Foravalon 07:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Terrorist activity?
I removed the terrorist part from the line:
- devised by Starfleet in light of increasing terrorist activities and tensions between the United Federation of Planets and the [[Klingon Empire]
because it was weird and baseless.--Foravalon 07:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)