Talk: USS Enterprise (NCC-1701 alternate reality)

The prime Enterprise was launched in 2245. It would be interesting to know the backstory about how exactly Nero's temporal incursion in 2233 prompted such a long delay in the launch of the Enterprise. Da Cheez 17:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Might that have something to do with this version of the Enterprise using a series of smaller intermix chambers instead of the more familiar one (or two?) depending on which MSD you're using? I also thought that the ship at Riverside was the 1700 but I might have misread the number.

Archduk3 17:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

There is some apocrypha concerning the ships length, height and so on. From the Enterprise Tour website:

USS Enterprise. Class: Constitution class ship. Type: Heavy Cruiser. Registry: NCC-1701. Designer: W. Matt Jeffries. Construction Site: Starfleet Division, San Francisco Fleet Yards. Overall Mass: 495,000 metric tonnes. Length: 2500 feet. Saucer Diameter: 1100 feet. Ship Height: 625 feet

Website: http://www.experience-the-enterprise.com/ww/

Also ILM has her down as 3000 feet or 914 meters in length in the following article: http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications::Article&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=C0928902C93D4F8682FB2117F7DD841F

Amasov 11:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

One possible explanation could be Captain Pike. His entire life was probably changed because of his experience with the distruction of the Kelvin. Perhaps he had something to do with it? i.e. he was involved in the design but he would have started sooner had he continued on the undestroyed Prime Kelvin.

I've been toying with the information we have on the alternate Enterprise, along with other people on the official Star Trek film forums. We've been extrapolating the size of the ship from any visual evidence we can scrape together (viewscreen size, height of the shuttlebay, anything), and we keep on coming back to this ~900m in length number, as supported by ILM. I invite you to http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7156 , where the discussion is ongoing. 78.105.126.28 04:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

In the discussion section of the Constitution Class page, here: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Talk:Constitution_class#Length.2C_crew_complement.2C_and_mass_of_Alternate_Reality_version

The size figures have been removed because websites are not an allowable resource for such things, besides the fact that the film CLEARLY disproves those insanely huge size figures. I believe for the sake of consistency, the size figures should be removed from this page as well. Rogue Vulcan 21:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

You say the film clearly disproves the large size figures, but... it doesn't. It simply doesn't. It does quite the opposite. Compare [1] from TMP and [2] from XI. Are work bees the size of 20-man personnel transports? I'm not saying that this visual evidence should be used within the article, but it's pretty clear that the ship is more than 300m long.78.105.126.28 00:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Is the bridge 75ft across? (At 757m) Or 105ft across? (At 914m) Where are you getting the idea that the ship in the XI pic is a 20-man personnel transport?

For one thing, when Pike leaves the ship in a shuttle, the shuttlebay clearly is about the same size relative to the shuttle as the TOS shuttlebay is to a TOS shuttle. Furthermore, there aren't NEARLY enough decks on the XI Enterprise for it to be ~800m long. Also, the saucer has almost identical dimensions to the TMP-type saucer, so logically, it should also be a similar size. And just think about the logic of it, if they're building a 400m tall ship on earth, they are building scaffolding the size of the Empire State Building just to assemble it!

Finally, think of the alleged mass of just 450,000 tons. At that density, the XI Enterprise would float better than an ice cube in a glass of syrup! I simply cannot see any logic by which we can assume those size figures to be anywhere near accurate. (Not to mention the fact that the ship would be longer than the Sovereign class, and MUCH more volumonous than ANY ship from any race besides the Borg. And the Narada, a "simple mining vessel" would be the size of MULTIPLE Borg Cubes put together!)

Besides all that, websites simply aren't allowable sources of information for Memory-Alpha, so the figures should still be taken down. Rogue Vulcan 05:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

No, the bridge is not 105ft across. The bridge deck on the other hand could be (as shown in the film by the corridor leading to the bridge, that deck is now substantially larger and contains more than just the bridge itself - and on another note, there is another deck sitting on top of the bridge deck). I'm getting the idea that it's a 20-man shuttle by the fact that I and others counted at least 20 people on it in the seating section alone. It's evident from the images posted that five shuttles could stack up in the new shuttlebay, which incidentally is proportionally shorter than the TMP bay, which could barely stack three. The notion of building an Empire State Building sized scaffold may make no sense, but whether it makes sense to us or not is irrelevant. It's what's being shown that matters. And the figures are accurate, because the people who made the ship told us as much, and it's backed up by repeated visual evidence. As for the Narada, if you've read Countdown, you'll know that your comparison of the ship to Borg Cubes is very, very apt, and reasonable, considering the ship's origins. /walloftext 78.105.126.28 05:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Uhm, just because the people that make the model think that it is a certain size doens't mean it gets to be that size on screen. Producers, VFX supervisors, Directors, etc have ALL said things that end up not being true on screen. And like I said before, websites simply aren't an allowable resource anyway. (Not to mention that the sites can't even agree on a size to begin with. And again, the mass figure is clearly wrong, so they aren't very knowledgeable people to being with either.)

And as far as the "actual" size of the ship, I am FAR from convinced. Like I said before, when Pike's shuttle leaves the bay, the bay is normal sized, not 800m-sized. Furthermore, it is simply unreasonable to believe that they created a ship larger than ANY other Starfleet ship from 120 years later. Obviously, no real size figure can be discerned without screencapture analysis, which we have precious few of, but even your picture of the shuttle proves that it isn't that large. The shuttle is what, maybe 8ft tall? That makes the shuttlebay doors only about 35ft tall. Which is just a hair taller than they are on the TMP-type Connie.

As I said before, even the structure of the ship proves its size. The windows would be ENORMOUS at 757m, like spanning two or three decks each. The nacelles would be about twice as large as the ENTIRE TOS Enterprise.

For more evidence, compare the following two images:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:The_Enterprise_(alternate_reality)_discovers_Nero%27s_Chaos.jpg

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:USS_Enterprise_(alternate_reality)_departs_Spacedock.jpg

Notice that the viewscreen/window is maybe six or seven feet tall. And notice how large it is relative to the ship in the second pic. That makes the ship (Nacelles included) about 300ft tall. The TOS Enterprise is 229ft tall. To be 914m long, the viewscreen would have to be over 16ft tall.

So yes, it is a little bigger than the TOS or TMP versions, and it has a large shuttlebay, but the ship overall is nowhere NEAR 757m or 914m long. And yes, the film DOES prove that. Rogue Vulcan 16:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I would just point out that the website in question (the "virtual tour") is not some "fan" site, but an authorized production related source. This information comes FROM the production, just like information used to be posted over at StarTrek.com before it was closed down. We permitted ST.com, so why should we NOT permit this site?Capt Christopher Donovan 18:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

For one thing, because they can't even agree on a size. For another, because we can't even be sure that anyone at Paramount is approving the content. For another, the ship isn't actually that size. Rogue Vulcan 19:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't really know for sure that it isn't that size (two different sources, both with large numbers?), but I agree that we should wait for more solid info before adding anything to the canon section. We have no clue where the various websites fall on the canon scale. – NotOfTheBody 19:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

That's why it was in the BACKGROUND section. It's behind the scenes data, not on screen data. BTW, everyone keeps talking about Pike's shuttle vs the size of the bay. I have to remind you that these shuttles are a LOT bigger than the original ones. I've seen at least one still (don't know where they got it, and not about to ask) of the bay close up where they scaled everything and the bay works out to 20m tall, confirming a ~900m ship.Capt Christopher Donovan 19:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I just showed a comparison with the viewscreen that proves that it ISN'T 900m. And why do you think that the shuttles are that much larger? They may be longer, but they aren't anything like 16ft tall, or 40ft wide, or something. It's made quite clear on screen that the shuttles are just as tall and wide as they were in TOS. (Remember Kirk having to duck under the ceiling beam before taking his seat? Where's the 20ft ceiling in this supposedly huge shuttle?) This is just a case of people WANTING to believe that it is an unreasonably huge ship, when the canon clearly proves that it isn't. The viewscreen image proves it quite plainly. Spock stands in front of the viewscreen, showing us how tall the screen is, and the scene with the spacedock proves how big the screen is relative to the ship. Case closed. Rogue Vulcan 20:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I assure you, the case is not closed. It's quite possibly even more open than ever. Again, I invite you to the forum thread I posted earlier on this talk page, where evidence is being thrown around like snowballs. 78.105.126.28 20:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen the thread. It seems the only "evidence" that supports the 900m size is the shuttlebay holding racks of shuttles. However, that fails to account for the fact that the shuttlebay is in fact winder in relation to the ship than the TOS ship's bay was. (And the new Enterprise's shuttlebay is probably also taller in relation to the ship as well.)

However, none of that stands up against the things I have mentioned. The viewscreen is rather easier to measure than a shuttlecraft, because Spock stands right in front of it. There is no guesswork involved as to how tall the screen is. And in the second pic I posted, the screen is about 1/44th as tall as the ship. So, multiply 7ft by 44 and you get 308ft. That's how tall the new Enterprise is. Disprove that, and you might have the beginnings of a case.Rogue Vulcan 20:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

PNA

The Technical Data section needs rewriting to conform with our point of view. At the moment, it reads like background information. -- Michael Warren | Talk 07:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Transporter

Just to be clear, where they using the transwarp beaming (or whichever it was) to get Kirk and Spock to the Narada, since Saturn is 1.2 billion km from Earth?- JustPhil 21:13, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It was never directly stated but I would say its probable. It would go a long way to explain why nobody on Earth or elsewhere in the system was able to beam aboard the Narada- because it had its shields up. I think the "transwarp beaming" may have been partly inspired by the subspace transporters used in TNG. If we conjecture that they are one and the same then that would explain both their range and ability to beam through shields.--Hribar 02:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Shouldn't the picture of the Enterprise be one that isn't juxtaposed in front of a space station? My low res computer couldn't tell the ship apart from the thing behind it. 70.179.52.204 22:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Removed from article

I've removed the following speculation about the differences between this Enterprise and the original universe's Enterprise from the article:

There are several possibilities for this, including the possibility that the vessel intended to be Enterprise 1701 was renamed USS Kelvin in honour of the destroyed vessel, and that this Enterprise is in fact a totally different vessel, although this idea is pure conjecture. It could also be a lack of continuity information on the part of the producers.

Since it's admitted conjecture without any evidence supporting it, I don't think it belongs in the article. Of course, other opinions are welcome. —Josiah Rowe 15:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Deflector Dish

Did anybody else notice that the deflector dish seems to become more animate right before the ship goes to warp? I noticed this before they jumped to warp just before the end credits.--Hribar 17:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe there was an interview with ILM about the design of the new Enterprise which stated that one of the changes they made was to include a very animated deflector dish, capable of changing shape, size, and orientation. So, good eye there! :) 78.105.126.28 20:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)