Talk: USS Raven

Please see "Dark Frontier" and/or page 652 of the 1999 edition of the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

SSs?

Is this the SS Raven, or the USS Raven? The title is one, while the article references the other.

It started out as SS Raven in "The Raven" but was later referred to as USS Raven in "Unimatrix Zero" IIRC. --James Cody 18:15, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Should we move this article to SS Raven (as it was originally mentioned) or should we keep it at USS Raven, as it was referred to later (apparently by mistake)? --From Andoria with Love 10:58, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I vote to move it to SS Raven as it was originally mentioned. We can presume that Magnus was simply misspeaking out of carelessness, and certainly the ship's original appearance indicated that it was a privately-owned civilian ship. -- Sci 11:30 1 JAN 2006 UTC

USS Raven. It was called so by Magnus Hansen himself when making his field notes and it was displayed this way on Janeways PADD and Astrometrics in "Dark Frontier". Magnus himself told the Fedration Council approved of their endavour. This would suggest the ship was supplied by Starfleet. Would they need approval if they used a non-Federation/civil ship ? I don't know if a civil ship would have the same display layout as Starfleet ships. Although it is difficult to make out what is acutally written on the Ravens Engineering display. -- Q 15:59, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

The exact line is as follows: "Field notes, U.S.S. Raven, Stardate 32611.4: It's about time. The Federation Council on Exobiology has given us final approval. Starfleet's still concerned about security issues but they've agreed not to stand in our way. We've said our goodbyes, and we're ready to start chasing our theories about the Borg." The Federation Council was not involved; rather, an agency referred to as the Federation Council On Exobiology was; the FCE could very easilly be a private organization. (Using "Federation" in your title doesn't automatically mean government any more than using "American" in your title means government.) But I can see several scenerios were they'd need Starfleet or the Federation government's approval to go chasing the Borg if it was a private ship -- for one, it would mean going beyond the borders of the UFP and possibly heading in the direction of the Romulan Star Empire, so Federation security and diplomacy might be an issue. They'd also need the approval of the FCE if it was sponsoring or funding their endevour, same as archeological digs need the approval of their sponsoring universities, for instance. Another possibility in addition to that is that the Raven is actually the Federation Council On Exobiology's property and the Hansens used it with their permission. Re: Layout. I see no reason to assume that a civilian ship wouldn't have had an operating system similar to the LCARS system used on Starfleet ships, and I see no reason to assume that the layout would be fundamentally different. In any event, as others have noted, there are concrete canonical references to the ship being both SS and USS -- but the registry was never changed, and "NAR" always meant civilian in TNG. There's no Starfleet crew, the ship was originally called SS, and "The Raven" and "The Gift" both imply that the ship was privately owned. I'd say that the evidence that it was a privately-owned, or at least civilian-owned, ship, whether owned by the Hansens or owned by the FCE, outweighs the evidence that it's a Starfleet ship. -- Sci 09:05 2 JAN 2006 UTC

You would think the writers would keep things consistent... and here everyone's blaming Star Trek: Enterprise for being the "inconsistent series". :-P Anyway, what was the extent of its reference in "The Raven" (having not seen that episode -- at least, I don't think I have)? Also, if anyone actually knows what the name was on the model of the Raven, that could also be extremely helpful. I think we should go by the name that was on the actual ship, if that's possible. --From Andoria with Love 00:50, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

I always assumed that the dual reference could be related to some change in the Raven's status? Perhaps when Raven's mission was approved by the higher powers that be, they re-registered the vessel with a new prefix.

Actually, the ship has concrete references to both SS and USS. The plaque reads "SS" but computer records read "USS" -- seems like they mightve changed the prefix but kept the old plaque.

anyone got a pic of what it said on the ship's hull? -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk

• I'm pulling this from EAS, but here is a bit more on the ship that isn't included on the page, but is supposedly from one of the logs read in "The Gift".

• The Hansens' ship was referred to as Jefferies on a display in VOY: "The Gift". The text on the screen reads like this:

• "According to arrival/departure log from the Drexler outpost in sector Omega, exploration vessel Jefferies left that location in 2354. No flight plan was filed and no further contact was ever established. Last known heading was 237/47."

• The rest is just inane blurb, but we might accept the useful part nonetheless. Either the vessel's name was switched from Jefferies to Raven (Starfleet may already have had a USS Jefferies) along with the registry and the outpost was still using an old database, or the Hansens were there in disguise.

• We may wish to take this into account, or get some sort of confirmation to help add to this discussion. --Alan del Beccio 02:21, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Here's a screenshot of the text

File:Annika Hansen text.jpg

Data about Annika Hansen

• I came across this myself, just the other day and deciphered it. I agree with Alan's translation above for the first bit, and the rest devolves into drivel. Not even a sly reference or in-joke, just the rambling of a bored production staffer! --Aurelius Kirk 16:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I had a look at the image, and I can barely make out a single word. I don't think that this should be used as evidence that they left in 2354 and were assimilated in 2356. This would contradict information in Dark Frontier, where one of the Raven's logs states that they had been on the Borg's trail for 8 months prior to finding the Borg, and then a comment by Seven while talking to janeway that her parents studied the Borg at close range for three years. This establishes a minimum period for the voyage of the Raven to be 3 years and 8 months, and I think a clearly spoken and direct quotation by the characters (one of whom was actually there) is much more canonical than a blurry graphic that has been described as "the rambling of a bored production staffer". I think that this information makes it much more likely that the Raven left on her voyage in 2353 and encountered the Borg in 2354, to be assimilated in 2356. Additionally, the log only states that they departed the Drexler outpost in 2354. It's pure speculation to assume that the Drexler outpost was the start of the Raven's journey. She could have been in space for months chasing the Borg before arriving at the Drexler outpost. All the log establishes is that the last contact with the Raven was in 2354. In addition, the log has been shown to be incorrect, as it is talking about a ship called the "Jefferies", not the Raven! Any attempts to explain that the Jefferies is an alternate name for the Raven or that the Hansens were there in disguise is nothing more than speculation, and shouldn't be treated as canonical.--Tiberius 08:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

No opinions on this?--Tiberius 02:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Although I don't like excluding on-screen evidence, I think it was decided that dialogue should take the precedence over graphics, especially those that are barely legible. Other the graphic does say 2354 (that much I can make out), it does seem to contradict what was said... so wouldn't saying they left in 2353 be okay? We can just mention in background that a graphic said they left in '54. Right? --From Andoria with Love 03:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

So do we change the timeline to reflect the dialogue or leave it as it is, for the sake of a blurry graphic?--Tiberius 12:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Can we get a consensus on this date topic? Unless anyone disagrees, I think the dates of the raven's voyage should be altered.--Tiberius 02:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It's been almost two weeks, surely there must be more people out there with opinions on this! is there any argument at all to stick to the 2354 date?--Tiberius 01:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, I just watched the Raven and I could hear no dialogue that said SS Raven, and I saw nothing on the screen that eliminated the possibility of the SS having a U in front of it. Where in that episode is the name of the ship established as SS Raven instead of USS Raven? If it is just background material that says SS Raven, then the on-screen mention of USS should supercede the backstage source that says SS, shouldn't it?--Tiberius 11:32, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes. That is why the article is currently located at USS Raven. :) And to answer your question from Dec. 2006, we should go by what the dialogue says, so the chronology should be changed, if it hasn't been already. --From Andoria with Love 03:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Where in "The raven" is it shown that the ship's name is SS Raven without the U in front? I've had a look and I can't find any point in the episode that shows that there wasn't a U at the beginning. Unless someone can point to a screen shot or a line of dialogue that refers to the SS Raven, I think any reference to it originally being SS should be removed.--120.22.83.194 09:07, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Kitbashing

I removed the following as on close inspection it becomes claer that the Raven is not simply a runabout hull anbd some modified Voyager nacelles put together but it's own design, inspired by the Danube class design maybe, but unique nonetheless. --Jörg 22:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC) --Jörg 22:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The digital model of the Raven is most likely constructed primarily from a Runabout hull, with the cockpit modified and windows added to suggest a larger scale. The nacelles and pylons appear to be borrowed from an Template:ShipClass vessel, modified to suggest an older design. This form of "digital kitbashing", popular in Voyager and Enterprise, is also particularly evident in the Mazarite warship.

LCARS

Why does the Raven run TNG/VOY-era LCARS, when it was launched as late as 2353? Other ships of that era ran the TFF/TUC blue-and-teal computer interface. The earliest we see LCARS, as far as I know, is 2364, with the launch of the Enterprise-D. We still see the blue-and-teal interface in use in 2355 on the USS Stargazer. Kyouteki 20:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The Stargazer appears to be based off of 23rd century designs, which may also apply to its computer systems. The Raven would appear to be of a newer class, and thus has a newer computer system. This may explain the discrepancies. - Enzo Aquarius 20:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

the last ship in with this lcars-style is the Val Jean build in 2332, i think --Shisma _{Bitte korrigiert mich} 11:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The Enterprise-C also has that LCARS design, it even appeared in Troi's quarters on ger replicator some time in Season 5 (seems they forgot to remove all of it after shooting TUC on the TNG sets... ;-) --Jörg 11:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)